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From: CKP
Date: 09/08/01
Time: 07:25 PM
Ron, does Dr. Marshall have any clue that you are taking his name in vain like this? I happen to be a researcher myself, and I get really furious when people interpret my findings inaccurately, so I can only imagine how he might feel.
I personally have a great deal of respect for Dr. Marshall, but his work (which is an awesome body of work) does not actually suggest those things you are claiming.
<<This is the site of Doctor Barry Marshal who first proved that reflux and stomach ulcers were a result of Helicobacter Pylori infection.>>
First of all, his name is spelled with two l's. Second of all, he apparently did not prove that reflux and stomach ulcers were a result of h. pylori infection. On his site, I did a search for every reference to reflux, and found nowhere where he said that. So if it is hidden from his own search engine maybe you could post the quote?
The only place he mentions any possible link is in the FAQ, where he says: "Heartburn is related to a leaky valve at the lower oesophagus and the arrival of acid from the stomach into the oesophagus. Thus, heartburn could be related to H. pylori if some H. pylori patients produce excessive acid (this is known to occur) or if H. pylori leads to some slowing of emptying of the stomach acid (this sometimes occurs when the pylorus valve at the bottom of the stomach is narrowed). Burping symptoms are usually related to some problem at the lower oesophageal sphincter, allied to heartburn, reflux and hiatus hernia."
Did you catch that wording, Ron? COULD be related, not *is* related. And he clearly states that if there is this relationship, then the patient also has burping. Dr. M. is by no means claiming that h. pylori is a common cause of reflux.
Further, he makes no claims that H. pylori causes reflux symptoms, such as reflux laryngitis, something that you, Ron claimed in a post to this forum on 7/28/01. In his FAQ, when asked the question, "Is there a relationship between reflux, H. pylori and a sore throat and what should I do to help stop my cough?" Dr. Marshall makes no claim of a relationship to h. pylori but instead says, "Reflux of acid can lead to a sore throat and can lead to coughing. The usual treatment is to see an ENT surgeon to make sure there is nothing amiss. If nothing can be found, then a gastroenterologist could do treatment for acid reflux."
So even the great man himself does not recommend triple therapy for reflux-related problems!
Further, I did a Web of Science search under Dr. Marshall's name, looking for references that discussed H. pylori and reflux. I couldn't find the landmark research you are suggesting about h. pylori causing reflux. I found only one article, an article in the March 1999 issue of POSTGRADUATE MEDICINE entitled "Recognizing peptic ulcer disease - Keys to clinical and laboratory diagnosis." (Of course this is available on the web--just enter the first four words of the title into google. And it's pretty readable; PM is articles by specialists but written for family docs.)
In this article, the authors do not claim that h. pylori is responsible for reflux. Quite the opposite: "Equally important is the ability to determine which patients likely have gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), which would not be expected to respond to antimicrobial therapy for H pylori."
So he is certainly not recommending that GERD patients do the antibiotics, either.
<<Why would you doubt this treatment since it is a proven, safe and simple alternative for many sufferers.>>
Because this board is devoted to people who have GERD, not those with h. pylori!! And h. pylori does *not* cause GERD.
You keep advocating the h. pylori treatment as a cure for GERD. That's fine if you personally believe it, but please don't cite Dr. Marshall as an authority for that theory--he apparently does not believe it.
Further, the treatment is not all that "safe and simple." First, those strong antibiotics are very hard on the body; they throw the natural balance of intestinal organisms off, and may leave one with a candida infection or worse. Second, many people experience worse GERD symptoms after h. pylori eradication. I posted some key references on this area of research on 8/6/01 under a thread entitled "Re: Reply to Beegs..."
Of course these people on this website had success stories! They had h. pylori, and it was treated.
The people on THIS forum have ACID REFLUX.
Posting that kind of success story is like going to a forum on foot problems and posting stories about growing hair with Rogaine. Some people do have foot problems and loss of hair at the same time. And some people do have h. pylori and reflux. But they may not be related, and there are different diagnostic tools and treatments for each condition. In the example that Dr. Marshall gives of a case where h. pylori makes reflux worse, there is burping and belching. That is something not generally associated with reflux, and any competent doctor would of course test for h. pylori based on those symptoms.
You claim to be offering a cure for reflux that is an alternative to surgery. But as Dr. Marshall himself points out, a cure for h. pylori will not help reflux patients. So what is your point?